tv Quadriga - The International Talk Show LINKTV January 15, 2016 9:00am-9:31am PST
was this bombing and actively revenge? of more attacks, possibly in germany, it is clear -- thaterminism terrorism is no longer a distant threat. your host this week, peter craven. >> welcome to this latest edition of quadriga coming from the heart of the german capital. after tuesday's attack istanbul 10 citizenst least dead, the question we are asking is, ris attacks now inevitable here in germany? it has been expressed to me here in berlin, is it simply a matter of time? now to discuss those difficult questions, i am joined by three seasons analysts. first, alan posener says there
is no absolute protection against terror but germany must do more. to deger akal. she is a berlin-based freelance journalist who has worked in the ankara,capital of corresponding for various newspapers and television channels. says that despite differences, turkey and germany need each other now more than ever. a warm welcome to seyran ates, who is a german lawyer and a prominent advocate of women's rights. believes that germany is just as vulnerable to terror as any other country. the terror organizations, she says, have taken on such a die mentioned that can only be combated militarily. you have just come back from this temple. what can you report? can report that for more
than two years, people are afraid that something can happen. why thate wondering could happe y the states could not see that or realize that this place is in danger? what might the answer be to that question? >> there was not enough security. >> why not? it is such a sensitive location. >> it is the heart of tourism. it is also the heart of istanbul. knew that we have so many tourists there and we need this place for our tourism. and they didn't have more
security, more police? we have to ask the police if it is the fault of the police or the government. answer is really, really difficult to say. the state is responsible for this, doing nothing. it is hard to say. but many people say that. ?> what do you say, deger this is an incredibly sad story, coming at the end of a decade when we talk about a golden decade in turkey of growth and stability. it now appears to be over. who is profiting from the fact that these groups are getting weapons? >> obviously, there are regional powers and dynamics. the islamic state is profiting from this violence because it is sending a signal to the world,
trying to show strength in a very important city like a stumble. -- istanbul. districtith a mosque and a museum, an important place in civilization. it is quite disappointing and depressing. .ictims are germans germany has been the country which has welcomed syrian refugees. fleeing from the islamic state and from more. it has a lot of impact. it has a lot of targets. we have to wait to see who is really behind the attack. officials in the turkish government had stated that the islamic state is behind it. there is different information. went toide bomber register one week ago and we
don't know whether his identity identity, whether it is fake. this shows that the islamic state is trying to do anything to commit attacks because we know that since august of last year, since the attack in on turkey has increased its security and operations toward the islamic state. we know that the german authorities stated yesterday that they were actually happy with the operations. math to not know the say it is the i.s. behind it. we did not know that from ankara. >> we still don't know. >> it is the same story now. >> we still do know who is because, we don't
know. nobody claims, we don't know the details of the investigation. >> what is your take on this, alan? is an attack on two countries which are partners. and have been for years, and will remain partners more than ever. military partners, germany is in the fight against i.s. and turkey is part of nato or they have helped us to the difficulties of the cold war. turkey is trying to join the european union and turkey is the main country we need to help us stem the refugee flow and so on and so one. hitting turkey and germany at the same time makes sense for a lot of people. it would make sense for the government, and it would
make sense for the iranian backers. would make sense for i.s. to destabilizets turkey -- and there are enough -- they will do something like that, which is all the more surprising and shocking that it was so easy. of course, they can attack us here. >> what about destabilizing germany? --the justice minister says the security situation has not changed. but i am bumping into people all the time who are telling me it is only a question of time in germany. >> 2-3 years. it is just a question of time. is a question of time, probably. the point is that there is still this notion out there that we don't want to change our habits. police in the streets or surveillance cameras.
you have demonstrations against our security working together with nsa, as if that was the problem. this mindset has to change. >> this is the difference between turkey -- i don't know if you have the same opinion. in turkey, people want more security. they don't need to change in turkey for that. people ask for more security, they ask why there are not more cameras in the united states, more police. they wanted. >> let's go back first of all to that strange fact that remarkable fact, that germany has not been struck by the kind of attacks we have seen in a string of capitals in countries around the world. this sense is that the danger is getting ever closer. in november, the cancellation of an international soccer match emphasize the rising threat of
an attack. authorities in munich took warnings of an impending strike over new year's series a. signs that the most recent bombing in his stumble was meant to and germans. germany has been involved in the coalition fighting i.s. for some time. one area where it is active is in training and arming kurdish militias. in december, the german government approved further arms to peshmerga fighters. just a few days ago, tornado reconnaissance jets left an air base in southern turkey on their first mission against i.s. will germany pay a price for its contribution to the fight against terrorism? alan, is germany beginning to pay the price for being involved? >> i think that is the wrong way of looking at it.
it is as if we did something first and they are retaliating. they attacked us, and not even beginning with 9/11. there were victims from all over the world in those buildings. it wasn't a retaliation, it was jihad. it was an attack. this means the whole west, the whole concept of a free society, and germany being such an important part of the west, is going to get hit the it in our own country, be it -- remember the attack on the synagogue in tunisia. there were german tourists there. we are attacked as part of the west. >> i can sense the ladies are in agreement with you. what is your explanation for why there has not been the kind of attack we have seen in london, bombay, new york, madrid. why hasn't not struck in
germany? i germany has security and intelligence. they are hard-working and they have good cooperation with several countries. we know from the statements of the intelligence and security officials. another reason is also because germany is a country, a pluralistic country, religious groups in germany are not radicalized. i think this is very important to maintain. fundamentalists do not have to much support in germany. i think compared to other european countries -- >> a pluralistic tolerance society, but alan posener is a more police? more control of data? where does it end?
that doesn't stomach a tolerant society. >> i do not agree that we need more and more security. turkey is a country with a lot of security. i mean -- >> -- >> you cannot move in turkey without -- there are video cameras everywhere. everybody is under control, what internet, what utah, everything. that is not the main point. the focus should be put on solutions to the political problems in the region. involved way too much in the sectarian and political, regional power struggles. germany is not, they are more prudent in this sense. it makes a lot of difference. we cannot talk about only security. it is not enough to overcome
terrorism. >> it is not enough. i agree. you have to do what you can do. if you say i want more closed circuit tv, not in favor of a police state. i am just making sure that if somebody commits a crime, we can be able to trace .hem, like in cologne firstly, we have been very lucky . there was a bomb in cologne a couple of years ago, it just did not detonate. we --'t know how lucky what would we be talking about if that had exploded? so, we are just lucky. >> at the top of the show, we that theaying terrorism organizations headed
he combated militarily but there are many people here in germany who are very much of a pacifist frame of mind. you are talking for military intervention to combat i.s. -- many germans say that would backfire. they would argue that the situation has been made worse in iraq, afghanistan, libya. are they naïve? >> i don't want to say they are naïve, maybe i am. what happened in afghanistan and iraq was not good strategy. power really use military , you have to have a strategy and a plan after going into a country. that was the reason why iraq and it how it did. -- ended how it did. iis to weapons therefore
take them. -- leaving weapons for i.s. to take them. maybe i cannot understand what has happened there. goodrmany, we had a marshall plan after the war. .t is a democratic country if somebody wants to change something, and go in some countries and try to start the procedure to democracy -- he should have a good plan and a good strategy after military attacks. >> it is a good idea in principle. just go there and user military power -- >> that is not what i am seeing
happen. what i see is the germans delivering training and arguments to kurdish forces. down, they this dies are not going to give those armaments back. >> they are not. >> exactly. >> they are not. it is a big failure of the western countries. the western countries failed in .raq we still don't see any political strategic concept. giving weapons is not a solution to the conflict. that is why i think it will make things worse if we only elaborate on the military aspect . we need a political process. that is why louisiana is very important -- that is why vienna very important.
i think it is time for western to think politically, strategically, to have concepts which we cannot see. even in the eu, we have problems. it is difficult for all of us. that is why it makes these terror alerts so serious. ares not because terrorists so strong, it is because we are so weak. >> the question is whose interests are here? anymore have no idea what is happening east of turkey, for example. whose interests are there now? while, after a long-term , we have now war in the east of turkey. who is fighting against to? -- who is fighting against who? >> we have talked about turkey
slipping slowly toward a state of effective low-level civil war. maybe that is what is happening. >> and what should western states do now? what should the eu do now if you want to have a good partner in this region? if you say turkey is the only partner you could have, you need to have a good plan, a political solution. i believe that we cannot do that without military intervention. >> you raise an important point talking about partners. turkey and germany have had a special relationship for a long large measure because of the large number of people living in germany with turkish origins. their relationship has become much more troubling recently. let's have a look. >> last october, angela merkel flew to turkey with avalon --
erdogan. here is what they agreed. erdogan promised him a greater efforts to check the wave of migrants headed for europe. in return, he gets more money moreefugee camps, and a liberal visa policy toward turkish citizens. hopes on thenned turkish president who has different interests than the eu. he is conducting a bitter war against kurdish militant organizations. there are many indications that he is at the same time providing at least some support for i.s. they have allowed shipments through, along with i.s. fighters heading for syria. jihadists are treated in turkish hospitals. kurdsh jets are bombing
who have so far been most successful at finding i.s. germany needs turkey to relieve the pressure of the migrant crisis but is the cost to high? >> that is the question, is president erdogan playing a double game? if the cost to high as being in alliance with the turkish leader? >> we need to be pragmatic in net is with the german government is trying to do. he might play a double game, he hain itefore, b what is ucial fogermany that he cooperat on certn issues and that we pulled turkey to eu and erdogan with or without. we need him at this moment, maybe, but the point is we need to talk with him to convince among certain issues. we don't have any other option. i think the german government is acting pragmatic on this issue. >> with or without erdogan?
>> with. he is not a nice person, but he is the only one we have and we are the only ones he has. the russians and the syrians and the iranians are against him. he has lost the arabs. he has lost everyone except us. actually, we are dealing with him on the basis that we both need each other. given that, we can talk tougher than we are doing. >> even when we know that he brings [indiscernible] at this point, we have to say that we need each other. we cannot do it without each other. said, turkey alone has no friends are now, no ally in the region. it is maybe the momentum for
europe, for western powers to pull back turkey. >> maybe it is a chance for turkey. >> before we go, i would like to bring the conversation back to germany. we talked about how these incidents we have seen have been destabilizing turkey. what about germany? we have the refugee crisis. one million people have come to germany. they have heard about the events in cologne on new year's eve, which were very disturbing events. they have never heard about what has happened in his dental. how destabilizing this is for germany? how much is germany now and angst country? i think we are being a little bit unfair. is increasing by do majority of germans welcomed the syrian refugees. i think the angela merkel
government has in a great job on this issue because this is exactly what the islamic state in the fundamentalists want. a lot more xenophobia, racism, as they have more arguments. thisnly way to overcome we in the german society, we work, we talk, we try to find a consensus on certain issues like religion or maybe women equal rights, homosexuality, this is something that we can only learn to do to survive. the 70 years of democratic struggle in germany, all of the gains, rights, it is not about immigrants, it is about homosexuals, women's writes, this is amazing, and i don't think anybody should chess and or do something against -- chasten or do something against
-- >> this is a remarkably positive vision. i suppose we need to go back to the question of, despite the offense instanbul -- the offense in his temple, is it inevitable that germany will be hit by an unprecedented attack? what is the mood? >> you would be foolish to deny that. other things are going to happen . we're going to have regional elections. they are going to destabilize germany because the populace is coming to the parliament. so, yes. >> will there be an attack? >> i am sure. >> seyran is sure. >> i am trying to be an optimist! >> we are going to have to leave it there. come back to quadriga next week. thank you for joining us.
[indistinct speaking] robert: many of us are trying to find ways to build a more sustainable world for future generations. we're concerned that our planet's well-being isn't as secure as it once seemed. but on every continent, there are new environmentalists who are committed to change. whether it's an individual, a small group, or a grassroots organization, they have made personal sacrifices that most of